Jan. 30, 2026

Just Do Nothing: Parenting Better by Doing Less

Just Do Nothing: Parenting Better by Doing Less
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Send us your feedback here:  biteyourtonguepodcast@gmail.com or give us a ring at 719-347-1106. Tell us what is on your mind.  

Now on to today's episode:

What if the hardest part of parenting adult children isn’t knowing what to do—but knowing when to stop?

In this episode of Bite Your Tongue, Denise sits down with licensed therapist and author Joanna Hardis to unpack her counterintuitive but powerful philosophy: doing nothing can be one of the most supportive things a parent does.

Joanna introduces the concept of distress tolerance—our ability to sit with discomfort without reacting—and explains why parents so often over-function, over-talk, over-explain, and over-apologize when their adult children struggle. While it may feel helpful in the moment, those reactions are often driven by our own anxiety rather than our child’s actual needs.

Together, Denise and Joanna explore:

  • Why parents confuse love with action—and how that backfires
  • How “doing nothing” is not abandonment, but emotional regulation
  • The difference between responding thoughtfully vs. reacting emotionally
  • Why swooping in sends the message “I don’t trust you”
  • How over-talking and people-pleasing quietly erode connection
  • The shift from doing mode to being mode in parenting
  • Practical, small “weight-lifting” exercises to build distress tolerance

Joanna offers concrete tools parents can start using today—beginning with something surprisingly simple: putting your phone down and sitting with discomfort.

This conversation is a must-listen for parents who love deeply, worry constantly, and want healthier, calmer relationships with their adult children—without losing themselves in the process.

Guest Resources: 🌐 JoannaHardis.com

We’re also launching our new listener phone line. We hope all of you will call to share their stories, ideas, episodes they liked or did not like.  We'd like to begin answering these questions in each episode.  So give us a call now at
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Huge thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.  

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00:00 - Overexplaining And Parental Anxiety

00:46 - Show Intro And New Year Theme

01:23 - Why Doing Less Can Help Parents

03:16 - Meet Joanna Hardis And Her Approach

03:56 - The Ghosting Story And First Book

06:15 - From Doing To Tolerating Distress

07:29 - Defining Distress Tolerance Clearly

09:15 - Patterns That Hijack Parenting

10:33 - High-Stakes Adult Child Decisions

12:05 - Amygdala Hijack And Reactivity

13:07 - Building Tolerance Like Weight Training

15:06 - Awareness Of Your Distress Style

16:44 - Function Of Behavior Over Impulse

18:22 - Apologize Briefly Then Stop

19:42 - People Pleasing And Needing To Be Liked

21:11 - Intent Versus Impact With Adult Kids

22:33 - Overfunctioning Disconnects Relationships

24:15 - Shifting From Doing To Being

26:06 - Meditation, Self-Compassion, And Myths

28:02 - Practice: Let Feelings Ride Shotgun

29:35 - A Simple Drill: Don’t Grab Your Phone

31:07 - Three Takeaways And Closing CTAs

WEBVTT

00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:07.839
So if my kid is upset, I've pissed my kid off.

00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:09.919
I feel like I have to overexplain.

00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:15.359
The function of my overexplaining is because I'm so upset that I've pissed them off.

00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.920
Function is purely to get rid of my distress.

00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:27.519
I am trying to get rid of a feeling inside of me that I've hurt someone that is so uncomfortable.

00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:29.600
Not responding to the situation.

00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:33.520
The situation is that they needed a limit.

00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.439
It was okay that I said no.

00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:44.240
The feeling inside of me was uncomfortable, and I have reacted to my feeling, which is never a good thing to do.

00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:50.000
Hey everyone, welcome to Bite Your Tongue the podcast.

00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:57.439
Join me, your host, Denise Gorant, as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children.

00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:05.599
Together we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories, and get timely advice, addressing topics that matter most to you.

00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:11.760
Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children.

00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:14.319
And of course, when to bite our tongues.

00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:16.319
So let's get started.

00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:23.760
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new year and a new episode of Bite Your Tongue the podcast.

00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.959
We're starting off right this year because we're doing nothing.

00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:34.239
That's right, we're talking to someone who's gonna help us maybe bite our tongues even more and just do nothing.

00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.359
Think about it.

00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:40.079
How hard is it for you to sit with discomfort when your child struggles?

00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.319
Do you have an urge to text or even call them just to see how they're doing?

00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.400
You think to yourself, I'm not butting in, I'm just just seeing how they're doing.

00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:58.239
We're gonna learn about this distress tolerance, how to stop, even when our children are doing things we don't like or we're uncomfortable with or even worried about.

00:01:58.480 --> 00:01:59.840
So let's get started.

00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.400
Today's guest is Joanna Hardist.

00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:08.560
She's a licensed independent social worker and cognitive behavioral therapist from Ohio.

00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:15.919
She's the author of the book called Just Do Nothing for Parents: How to Parent Better by Doing Less.

00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:24.479
Her work focuses on helping parents manage this discomfort, reduce overactivity, and build resilience through distress tolerance.

00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:26.319
Lord knows I need that.

00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:31.599
Sometimes when things go wrong with my kids, I just walk around nervous all day, hoping everything turns out.

00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:33.759
And it's hard to do nothing.

00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:39.599
We often think good parenting means doing more, more advice, more involvement, more fixing.

00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:42.000
But Joanna challenges that idea.

00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:47.599
What if the best way to support our adult children and ourselves is to do less?

00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.879
I certainly believe that, but I'd like the tools to know how.

00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:56.400
We need to learn to pause, breathe, and strengthen our ability to tolerate this discomfort.

00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:11.039
We'll talk about how parents develop emotional armor, why just doing nothing doesn't always mean disengaging, and how learning to tolerate distress can help us build healthier, even calmer relationships with our adult children.

00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:15.919
So instead of doing nothing right now, we're going to do something and we're going to welcome Joanna Hardis.

00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.639
Joanna, we're so happy to have you with us today.

00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:21.520
We're not doing nothing, we're having you as a guest.

00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:23.759
I'm so happy to be here.

00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:29.120
Your book is titled Just Do Nothing, and it's very counterintuitive.

00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.039
What inspired you to write it?

00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:36.159
And what does doing nothing really mean for parents, particularly those of adult children?

00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:37.280
Oh, sure.

00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.000
So that is like a three-part question.

00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:40.639
Okay.

00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:42.159
Answer it in three parts.

00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:42.879
Yep.

00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:44.400
Okay.

00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.560
So it is a paradoxical approach.

00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.479
Which one should I answer first?

00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:52.240
Whatever you feel comfortable with.

00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:52.960
You're the guest.

00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:53.439
Yes.

00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:54.400
I love it.

00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:55.199
Oh, wow.

00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:55.919
I'm the guest.

00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:56.479
Okay.

00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:19.439
So the first book, which was Just Do Nothing, a paradoxical approach to getting out of your way, which kind of started the whole thing, was inspired by a really personal moment in my life when I had gotten ghosted by someone that I had dated right before we were supposed to go on vacation together.

00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:20.879
Oh my gosh.

00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:21.839
I know.

00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:32.240
I'm a single mom and got divorced when my kids were very, very young and had gotten back into dating and got ghosted.

00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:44.240
So I went on vacation by myself for a week and really had to do what I tell clients all the time, which is you have to just do nothing with the stuff in your head.

00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.720
You got to leave that stuff in your head alone.

00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:51.600
Like stop fixating on how you feel and the stuff in your head.

00:04:51.920 --> 00:05:03.519
That vacation, I had to resist the urge to overthink, ruminate, try and figure out why he did what he did.

00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:20.079
And I had to take all those emotions I was feeling the sadness, the rejection, the anger, all of them with me as I tried, as I hiked, as I played pickleball, as I did yoga, and like really practice what I preach.

00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.519
And during the course of that week, I had the inspiration, like, oh, you know, this could be a book.

00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:27.519
I really had never had plans to write a book.

00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.319
I'm a therapist full-time, but that's the inspiration for that first book.

00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:56.639
Then the second book, which was just released for parents, that really came to me because, as a parent, between my own mishaps as a parent, because my own emotions get in the way of parenting, or all the parents with whom I've worked for decades, it really was just so top of mind to me.

00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:01.360
And it is so paradoxical what we have to do.

00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:02.560
You're absolutely right.

00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.040
You talk in your book about distress tolerance.

00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:15.759
And you kind of mentioned that when you're going on this vacation, and you know, your urge, whether it be your adult kid, your boyfriend, whatever it might be, is to text him, call him, talk to a friend about it.

00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:17.120
What have I done wrong?

00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:18.720
How am I going to deal with this?

00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:22.639
I think I'll have two hamburgers tonight because I can't handle this.

00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.639
Um, why is this such a critical skill for parents?

00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:40.399
And I think especially those of adult children, because when the kids are little, I feel like the stakes are not as high, i.e., a kid can fail a test and still do fine in life.

00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:46.959
When you watch an adult child make what looks like a serious mistake, the stakes are very high as you watch it.

00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:54.720
So, how do we begin today to build that armor that you talk about to help step back and do nothing with our adult children?

00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:55.360
Yes.

00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:55.759
Okay.

00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:02.240
So let's first I want to define, because I'm sure no one in this audience knows what distress tolerance is.

00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:02.720
Okay.

00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:03.120
Yeah.

00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:09.040
I want to define it and then kind of nerd out for a second and talk about why it's so important.

00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:09.759
Okay.

00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:21.040
The high-level definition of it is the ability to proceed in goal-directed activities despite aversive internal states.

00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:22.879
That makes perfect sense.

00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:25.759
Oh, I think that I understand that completely.

00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:35.759
The the the ability to go forward, live your life, do things, even though things are haunting you that are terrible in the background.

00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:36.639
Is that right?

00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:37.439
Sort of.

00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:38.000
Okay.

00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:56.240
What it means is the ability to feel emotional discomfort or the perception that you can feel and experience emotional discomfort without avoiding it or making it worse.

00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:00.079
Emotional discomfort without avoiding it or making it worse.

00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:00.560
Okay.

00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:13.519
We're not talking about the one-off time where, oh, I felt so overwhelmed with worry that I blew up my adult child's phone.

00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:14.160
Okay.

00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:27.519
Because we've all had that, we've all had that moment where we had an instance of not being able to tolerate our own discomfort and we behaved perhaps irrationally.

00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:45.679
We're talking about a pattern of behavior where we get hijacked by our own fear, our own shame, our own embarrassment, our own guilt, our own boredom.

00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.519
Most people may say, that doesn't happen to me.

00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:55.759
But here's the thing: I agree with you that I that as the kids get older, it gets harder.

00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:01.120
But these patterns, my guesses, have been going on since the kids were little.

00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:01.919
Absolutely.

00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:10.159
This is where I want parents to really listen with curiosity and compassion for themselves.

00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:17.759
Because anytime we talk about parenting, no matter what, people's armor goes up and people get really defensive.

00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:26.639
And so, in order to look at ourselves, I think we have to approach it with curiosity and compassion toward ourselves.

00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:37.600
So I want to preface it with none of us, especially the older we are, learned how to navigate these challenging emotions well.

00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:38.960
None of us.

00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:51.200
We all learned to cope with them in a way that helped us keep moving, but but most of us didn't learn how to how to move through them and get through it well.

00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.720
We may have learned how to just people please.

00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.600
We may have learned to just avoid them.

00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:00.960
We may have learned just to get really defensive.

00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.440
We may have learned to just evade completely.

00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.960
We may have learned to just numb out in some way.

00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:14.559
We may have learned that we're going to be the good girl or the nice person.

00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:21.360
We may have learned that we just work, work, work, work, work and achieve and be super perfect.

00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:23.200
I sort of get it.

00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:25.759
It's more complicated than it is.

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:26.320
It is.

00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.919
It's much more complicated than I thought because I think a lot of it has to do also with self-control.

00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.799
And I'd like to figure out how self-control ties into it.

00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.279
But let's let's get to a specific example.

00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:37.759
Yes.

00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:42.879
I'm freaking out, let's say my adult child's in a situation that truly causes me distress.

00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:49.440
It might be financial irresponsibility, poor relationship choices, or even the fear of estrangement.

00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.559
What do I do now?

00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.080
It's haunting me.

00:10:52.320 --> 00:11:00.399
I'm struggling with, oh my gosh, they're going to buy this house, they don't have enough money, or they're spending too much money, or they're going to marry this person.

00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:05.759
And maybe you're watching this person be abusive to your daughter or son and you're scared.

00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:06.480
What do you think?

00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:08.000
So let's take the relationship.

00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:09.679
Let's take the relationship choice.

00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:11.919
Because I hear that one all the time.

00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:12.320
Okay.

00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:14.320
The relationship choice.

00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:29.120
Every time we have to look at the situation because when we're in conversation with our child, my guess is what happens is that we get really reactive to our distress.

00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:37.519
And so, yes, we have to separate the situation, which is yeah, like it's distressing.

00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.320
There are concerns about the situation.

00:11:40.639 --> 00:12:00.639
However, when we have conversations with our child, what may happen is that we get so reactive to our own fears and our own distress that something happens that we can't have productive conversations.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.240
That makes perfect sense.

00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:03.679
So how do we control that?

00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:05.360
I'm slowing it down a little bit.

00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:16.480
What happens is we probably go into what's called like an amygdala hijack, which means you go right into like fight or flight and you start reacting to your feelings.

00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:21.120
And so you might talk too much, you don't listen, you lecture.

00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:27.360
And ultimately that pulls you away from your child, and your child shuts down and they're not even listening.

00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:39.679
And so what we want to do is we want to help the person build their tolerance so they're not so reactive to their own feelings.

00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.720
Now, ultimately, do they have much control over who their child marries?

00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.159
Possibly not.

00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:53.200
But you also whatever they're doing may be moving them further away from their relationship with their child.

00:12:53.440 --> 00:13:07.519
What I'm suggesting in the book is being able to build a skill set to build that, it's not a muscle, but to be able to build that muscle for building your distress tolerance.

00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:17.039
The way that I do it is say being able to have that conversation with your child is think of it in terms of weight training.

00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:24.399
Being able to have conversations with your child may be like analogous to a 25-pound weight.

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:25.600
It's like a bicep curl.

00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:26.879
Think of it like a bicep curl.

00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:28.799
That's a 25-pound weight.

00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:45.440
So I have to be able to teach the person the skills and start them at a three-pound weight to be able to tolerate discomfort because my guess is they may not be able to do it with a three-pound weight.

00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:55.440
Let's look at other situations where you may feel discomfort and how are you reacting there?

00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.759
So don't start with the tough part.

00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:04.399
The 25-pound weight might be with your adult child, the three-pound weight might be your neighbor.

00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.240
Or yeah.

00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:12.480
How do you respond if you hear feedback you don't like at work?

00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:13.679
At work, right?

00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:14.240
Yeah.

00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.879
My guess is, and I don't understand.

00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:19.759
Obviously, I have to understand in that person.

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:32.320
And in the book, we talk about there's a whole chapter on building that person's awareness about what happens for you when you start to get overwhelmed.

00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.840
What happens when you start to feel distressed?

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.159
How do you how do you respond?

00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:42.720
Because that person has to understand their process.

00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.360
Do you shut down?

00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:46.799
Do you get defensive?

00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.240
Do you underreact?

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:50.000
Do you overreact?

00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.039
Do you just immediately go to people please?

00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:56.720
Do you go and and you can't stop talking because you have to?

00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.399
Do you immediately interrupt?

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.600
What is your personal style when you feel distressed?

00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:11.200
And we take that and then we figure out okay, what's your weight training plan to microdose discomfort?

00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:18.240
First, I'm going to say something about the people pleasing, because I think this plays a lot into it, even if you're down with your three-pound weight.

00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.720
Um for parents, especially mothers, we've spent years people pleasing.

00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:31.840
And this is interfering then because as we started people pleasing at our work, in our parenting with kids' friends, we want everyone to be happy.

00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:37.440
So the minute you hear someone's not happy with you, you do somersaults to get them happy.

00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:45.039
Well, some people, like you said, they either shut down, they talk too much, they interrupt, they call friends and talk about it, they can't let go of it.

00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.399
So, what's our first step in starting to identify?

00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.440
Well, let's start with someone who can't shut up.

00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:58.159
Because typically the person who can't shut up, I think, is going to be the person that's going to be the most damaged to the adult child relationship.

00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.039
So you notice at work, something bad happens, you can't stop talking about it.

00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:04.399
You go to the office next door.

00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:06.159
Why did John say this about me?

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.399
I turned that in on time, blah, blah, blah.

00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.480
How do you then handle that discomfort?

00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:11.600
What's my first step?

00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.720
We see a behavior, someone who talks too much.

00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.039
We have to figure, it may not be that they're distress intolerant.

00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:19.840
Oh, okay.

00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.200
Maybe they have poor impulse control because we don't know.

00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:32.480
So, in this is why in the in the book, I talk about we have to understand what is the function of the behavior.

00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:41.440
So, part of what I want to do for parents is help them determine, and this is one of the most important questions.

00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.440
What is the function of my behavior?

00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:46.399
Give me an example.

00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.639
Okay.

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:47.279
Of course.

00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.080
Yeah, of course.

00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.360
Like with my kids, I am an over-talker.

00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:56.720
So if my kid is upset, I've pissed my kid off, which I do all the time.

00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.639
I feel like I have to overexplain why I pissed them off.

00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:06.799
Because the function of my overexplaining is because I'm so upset that I've pissed them off.

00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.200
Function is purely to get rid of my distress.

00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.359
I don't have an impulse control problem.

00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.519
I have an anxiety problem.

00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:23.200
I am trying to get rid of a feeling inside of me that I've hurt someone that is so uncomfortable.

00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:23.680
Yes.

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.839
Not responding to the situation.

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:29.839
Situation is that they needed a limit.

00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:31.759
It was okay that I said no.

00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.119
The feeling inside of me was uncomfortable.

00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:40.240
And I have reacted to my feeling, which is never a good thing to do.

00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.400
So we have to understand what is the function of the behavior.

00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:49.200
If the person at work is talking too much, we have to understand.

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:54.079
Are they talking too much because they're trying to get rid of a feeling inside?

00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.000
Do they have an impulse control problem?

00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.079
Are they like trying to stir up drama?

00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:59.440
Like, we don't know.

00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:06.799
Once we've identified that, let's go to your situation because I think you're one in one million parents that would react that same way.

00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.519
You've pissed off your kid in many ways.

00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:11.440
It could be you said something you shouldn't have said.

00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.759
You said something to their spouse, you gave their child sugar, whatever it might be, and you're just harboring this guilt.

00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:18.240
Okay.

00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:19.680
What are my steps now?

00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.599
Now I know I have anxiety.

00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.200
I want this to go away.

00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.960
How do I help myself?

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.200
This is the paradoxical approach.

00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:28.640
Okay, do nothing.

00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.960
The feeling isn't the problem.

00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:32.400
Yeah, I get it now.

00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.599
This is where it's building my tolerance for that feeling.

00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:39.759
The feeling isn't the problem.

00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.160
The problem is me trying to get rid of it by talking too damn much.

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.960
You probably should start with, I'm sorry, when they tell you you screwed up and then stop.

00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:49.519
Oh, yeah.

00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:51.839
And then you're done.

00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.119
And then I'm done.

00:18:53.279 --> 00:19:01.039
And in my work is to be able to acknowledge, yeah, I feel, you know, it it's so hard to disappoint.

00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:02.000
It is so hard.

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.279
I get this so much now.

00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:12.880
Okay, you put it in a way that I really get it now, because there are many times you think, oh, I shouldn't have said that, or uh, maybe I should have invited them to this, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.039
And yes, fess up, you screwed up.

00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.720
Oh, gosh, I'm sorry that upset you, or whatever it might be, and then you're done.

00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.079
Or it's really hard to see you hurting.

00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.359
And I trust that you can figure it out.

00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.839
I don't want to put it back on them because it was it was my issue, I think.

00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.960
I would be more apt to just say, it's really hard to see you hurting.

00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.519
I'm sorry I contributed to that and move on.

00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:36.960
Or could I not say that?

00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.559
Well, it depends what the situation is.

00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:39.599
It really depends.

00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.960
But sometimes saying no is okay.

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:50.559
If you didn't deliver it in the best of ways, which I'm typically guilty of, then sure, like my delivery could have been better.

00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:51.200
Absolutely.

00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.640
But oftentimes, parents just struggle to say no.

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.160
But you're right, all of us do.

00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.519
I mean, it's very, very hard.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.960
And that's all about people pleasing and making them like us.

00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.359
Why are we so concerned that they like us?

00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.680
We've given them everything their whole life.

00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.079
We've been as we think as kind as we can be.

00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.640
Why are we so concerned about them liking us?

00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:19.839
I think that that is also the distress and time like that can be part of what makes it hard.

00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:28.240
And it's okay to acknowledge that fear in us and say, this is a feeling, and I don't need to engage in it.

00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:33.440
It's a fear, it's a feeling, and I need to just do nothing and keep moving.

00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:35.839
Fixate on our feelings.

00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:37.680
It is so problematic.

00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:44.960
As I used to tell kids when they were growing up, you're in charge of your feelings, and we're in charge of our feelings, but we let them get the most of us.

00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:45.599
Yes.

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.119
How many times in my life have I said, my kid is okay?

00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.079
I'm not.

00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.799
Always.

00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:52.000
This makes perfect sense.

00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.200
I think the hardest part is that you love them so much.

00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:00.720
Sometimes you feel like doing nothing is neglectful or not being helpful.

00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:02.480
Here's something too.

00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.960
Okay, because this came up for me recently.

00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:09.279
It's the whole idea of parents swooping in, which they still do with their adult children.

00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:10.079
Always.

00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:10.880
Always.

00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:16.559
When we swoop in, it also communicates that we don't trust that they can solve things.

00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:17.039
Yes.

00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.640
I've started to realize that.

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.200
Yeah.

00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:26.880
I got called out on this recently because my adult son in the federal shutdown, he wasn't getting paid.

00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:31.519
My instinct was to offer him money because he wasn't getting paid.

00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.880
And I thought, you know, I'll offer him money.

00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:36.319
I didn't, and he is the one.

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.839
If you've, you know, you read the book.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.160
I have a really hard time if he's upset.

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.079
I thought, no, this is okay.

00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.720
Like, I'm not reacting to my feelings.

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.880
And someone called me out on it.

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.039
And they were like, why would you do that?

00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:50.160
He'll figure it out.

00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.720
And I was like, no, he's not getting paid.

00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.759
And they were like, Joanna, he'll figure it out.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.200
So I really thought about it and then I decided not to do it.

00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:03.519
And I told him I was going to offer you money, but then someone called me out on it.

00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.920
And he was like, Thank God you didn't, Mom.

00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.359
I want to be an adult.

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.039
And of course I'll figure it out.

00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:10.480
Does he have a family?

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.640
Does he have children or no?

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:13.680
No, no, no, no.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.799
Because I think there's a difference in this kind of situation too.

00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:24.480
Because if I had a friend that wasn't getting paid during the federal shutdown, I might say, Is there any way I can help you?

00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.039
I'm happy to give you a loan during this time.

00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.680
Why is it different for me to say that to a friend rather than to my adult child?

00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.680
What different message am I giving?

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.599
Well, I think it's context-specific.

00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.000
There aren't any like hard and fast.

00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:42.880
But for him, me swooping in sends the message to my child.

00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:45.039
I don't trust that he'll figure it out.

00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.279
I personally always think I can do it better, which is really wrong.

00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:49.759
Right.

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:55.119
So I think parents, when we do that, and I thought of this when they were growing up.

00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.680
I was really like, you figure it out.

00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.400
Now I'm kind of like forget that somehow.

00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.920
It sends a message.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:06.640
Like we don't trust that they'll figure it out or they'll develop the skill set.

00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.200
I think we have to think about this.

00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:10.400
Is just another question.

00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.440
There are nuances.

00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.319
Like, and again, it's context specific.

00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:14.799
Right.

00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:16.160
It's very context specific.

00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:25.759
So we have to think as parents, if I do this, and I always encourage parents to not be so on autopilot.

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.079
Think about if I do this, what message does it send?

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.519
What skills do I rob them of developing?

00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:34.559
I love that.

00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:41.839
Yeah, because I think, especially with this generation of kids that are coming up, they're missing a lot of skills.

00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.480
What skill set do I rob them of developing?

00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.279
That's really good.

00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:50.960
I mean, with adult children, especially, we really have so little control.

00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:52.559
None.

00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:01.680
Especially when they're financially responsible for themselves, have their own families and everything, we shouldn't have any really.

00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:02.960
We should have none.

00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.440
Yet, because we raise them, we think we have some.

00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:06.559
We really have none.

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:19.039
And it's interesting because as you're saying this, I'm also thinking of situations when I do say something, they feel things coming from a parent, even if it's not judgmental, as judgmental.

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:25.519
Even if we're making just a comment about something, we would have been served better off by saying nothing and doing nothing.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:26.079
Yes.

00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:31.119
I love what you said because it's the difference between, and this always gets messed up.

00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:39.519
The difference between our intent, our intent may be one thing, but the outcome and what they hear is always another.

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:41.599
And that's really hard to fix.

00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.720
You said something in your book that I thought was really good.

00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.440
Parents fear making mistakes or disappointing their kids.

00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.920
So they overfunction, they over-apologize, and they overshare.

00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.000
And really, that's what's disconnecting them with their adult children.

00:24:58.240 --> 00:24:59.839
Unpack that for me a little bit.

00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:17.200
When we feel distressed, one of the things that can happen is that we get hijacked by that emotion and everything feels so important and so urgent, then we just talk too much, we overshare, and we're reacting again.

00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.759
That's one of the ways we react to our feelings.

00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:20.720
So true.

00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:27.279
Because when we're reacting to high emotional intensity, we don't think clearly.

00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:48.400
And so we may think that oversharing and talking a lot is gonna bring us closer, but what it inevitably always does is it moves us away from what's important because it's often not being responsive to the situation, which is what our kids need.

00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.200
Our kids don't really want to hear about us.

00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:51.680
Yeah.

00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.960
And that brings me to my very favorite part of the book, okay?

00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:58.480
Shifting from doing mode to being mode.

00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.759
And I think this is one of the hardest things for all parents.

00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.839
There was a big article about estrangement.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.960
Oprah Rinfrey wrote she interviewed lots of adult children and why they're estranged.

00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:13.200
The number one thing is that they don't feel listened to.

00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.480
We're spending too much time talking and not enough time listening.

00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.039
Tell us about what you write about in moving from the doing mode to the being mode.

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:23.920
Yeah.

00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:43.839
Well, okay, this is a big concept in anxiety recovery because when we feel especially anxious, our impulse is to do because we feel like we need to do something to get rid of that feeling.

00:26:44.720 --> 00:27:05.279
And so we will go into problem solving, we will go into micromanaging, we will go into controlling, we will go into figuring it out, we will go into do do do because many high-achieving people that has been our superpower.

00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.960
However, it really doesn't work with emotion.

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:18.880
If we're feeling a lot, the more you do to get rid of it, the more and the stronger that emotion is gonna be.

00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.279
It's like rocket fuel for an emotion.

00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:29.440
So if you're feeling something and you're and you're trying to problem solve it or figure it out, it's just gonna make the emotion bigger.

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:42.000
So what we really have to learn is what we were talking about before, if you're feeling guilt, if you're feeling something, to just let that feeling be, or else you're gonna make that situation so much worse.

00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:46.319
And do you suggest meditation or anything when you need to let that feeling be?

00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:52.640
Well, you know, that is sort of implying that meditation is a technique to get rid of a feeling.

00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.519
And so, no, that's just like gonna make it worse.

00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:14.640
I mean, meditation is fantastic as a process by which we can become more observant of our internal process of what goes on in our internal life, but it is not a technique to mitigate difficult emotions.

00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.279
But you talk a lot about self-compassion.

00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:18.240
Does that help?

00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:18.799
Yeah.

00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.559
So does that help mitigate some of that feeling of guilt?

00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.200
We can't mitigate because here's what happens.

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:31.920
If I tell you, okay, don't think about this phone, what's gonna happen?

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.599
All I'm gonna think about is the phone.

00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:34.559
Yeah, I get that.

00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:40.799
Don't if I tell you, get rid of this phone, all you're gonna do is think about that phone.

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:41.200
Right.

00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:42.720
Okay, it's really important.

00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:46.000
So we're not getting rid of it, we're learning to sit with it.

00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:48.880
So you're learning to function with it.

00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:55.279
So instead of saying I have to get rid of this guilt, I have to get rid of this guilt, I have to get rid of this guilt.

00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.160
We're saying, okay, the guilt can be there.

00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.319
I don't have to do anything with it.

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:05.759
Yes, it's it's really hard to feel, but I don't have to do anything with it.

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:11.039
It can be there as I go and chop these vegetables for my dinner.

00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.119
It can be there as I go walk the dog.

00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:19.839
And it does, and I don't have to make it the focus of my attention.

00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:27.920
I will take it with me, just as I did on my my solo vacation after getting ghosted, as I try and do these other activities.

00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:38.720
Yeah, it's gonna pop up, it's gonna wanna become the focus because that's what I'm used to doing, but I will then redirect my attention to whatever else I'm doing.

00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:42.160
And you just have to develop this slowly, like you mentioned, the weights.

00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:42.480
Yes.

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.319
So when something small happens, try to keep going and not let it.

00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:49.680
Is it am I using the wrong words if I say let it bother you?

00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.519
Because it's still bothering you, but you have to not react to it.

00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:54.240
Is that right?

00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:57.599
Yes, and you compassionately say, Yeah, this is hard.

00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:00.000
I'm like learning a new skill.

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:08.559
I'm like learning how to lift a five-pound weight when I'm only learn used to lifting a three-pound, and I'm gently going to redirect my attention.

00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:10.240
This is really hard.

00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:11.200
It's very hard.

00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:17.759
All of this is very hard, but very important, it seems to me, not only with our adult children, but I would think in life.

00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.519
Yes, absolutely.

00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:27.759
Because we're so used to making our feelings the focal point of our way of being.

00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:28.640
Absolutely.

00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:38.960
This is very paradoxical because we're saying, no, what I'm not making the this the shit in my head, my feelings and my thoughts so dominant for my life.

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.440
I'm making what I do that what's so important.

00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.200
And this stuff is not because you can't trust it either.

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:54.160
I'm gonna just tell my listeners, you might have to listen to this podcast twice and also by the book, because this is a lot to unpack.

00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:56.160
I have another I appreciate that.

00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.599
Okay, I have another question.

00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.839
Yes, and I'm gonna try to answer it myself.

00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.799
Okay, good after this, since we've been talking.

00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:09.839
So I had a question about how do we balance doing nothing while staying emotionally connective and supportive?

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:17.440
And I'm gonna guess the less we do and the less we say, the more emotionally attached we will become.

00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:18.880
Is that right?

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:19.839
Yes.

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:21.920
So I'm not really balancing it.

00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:28.480
I'm I'm staying emotionally connected by learning to have our emotions without acting on them.

00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:29.359
Yes.

00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:31.680
So I think I got it maybe.

00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.039
Yes, Denise.

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.880
Yes, because you're you're not as hijacked by what's in your head.

00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.359
So you can more easily attune to someone else and what's going on for them.

00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:41.839
You're right.

00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.599
And that goes back to the being mode rather the do than the doing mode.

00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:52.160
Yes, you're actually not as like kind of like in you're not as like self-absorbed.

00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:53.440
I don't want to use self-absorbed.

00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.440
No, self-absorbed is right.

00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:01.920
But it that sounds very judgmental because I don't believe that people are intentionally being self-absorbed.

00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:02.640
Okay, okay.

00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.720
I think I don't believe it's intentional.

00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:05.680
No, that's true.

00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:06.480
It's that's right.

00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:07.519
That's the outcome.

00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:18.240
Like we said, it's not the intent to be self-absorbed, but that becomes the outcome because we get so hijacked by our own distress that we it's very hard to attune.

00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:32.400
That's why we can't adequately listen and be with our adult kids' distress, because we get so like by our own distress and our own shame or guilt or or whatever.

00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.799
So I want to say tomorrow someone wants to start working on this.

00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.000
Can you give them a weight to live, something small in their life that they can begin with?

00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.160
Okay, let's just start with something that I bet everyone in this audience.

00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:56.079
If you're at a stoplight, if you're at the grocery store, if you're waiting for friends someplace at the gym or at a restaurant, don't pick up your phone.

00:32:56.319 --> 00:33:00.319
First, just allow yourself to feel uncomfortable.

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.920
Instead of like, oh, I hate this so much, can you get curious about the discomfort and try and soften into the discomfort?

00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:14.799
Because your urge is, oh my gosh, I gotta pick up my phone, because I suspect people are habitually picking up their phone all the time.

00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:15.519
All the time.

00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:40.640
Can you interact differently with that discomfort?

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.720
Because your brain is gonna say automatically, I've got to check it.

00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:52.000
Your brain has been trained unintentionally to perceive the whoosh as, oh my gosh, it's something urgent.

00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:52.640
I have to check.

00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:53.759
What if it's danger?

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:02.880
And so you have to retrain your brain, and this is in the book, why we have to retrain the brain that this is not dangerous.

00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:06.640
I'm uncomfortable and I can handle discomfort.

00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:12.239
And I'm gonna relax into the discomfort, I'm gonna be uncomfortable, and I'm gonna go do something else.

00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:13.840
And it's 20 minutes.

00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.400
Nothing is crucial in 20 minutes.

00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.599
The way we are today, we think everything's crucial in a second.

00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:20.400
Exactly.

00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.719
And that's why we need to do this.

00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:23.280
Yeah.

00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:24.960
Okay, so we're gonna wrap up.

00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:29.679
I always ask my guests to leave our audience with two or three takeaways.

00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.760
Yes, can you do that for me, please?

00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:32.400
Yes.

00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:44.480
Okay, so takeaway number one: I want people to instead of trying to make uncomfortable situations comfortable, get better at being uncomfortable.

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.360
That's one.

00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.920
That's like my mission for people.

00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:52.559
The second is let's think about the function of behavior.

00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:58.159
So let's ask yourself, what is the function or what is the intent of me doing this?

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:05.599
So am I responding to the situation or am I trying to get rid of an uncomfortable feeling?

00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:09.760
My third is self-compassion, it's a skill that we have to practice.

00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.039
So it's not intuitive, which is why we all really suck at it.

00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:19.440
We've gotta practice it just like we practice physical fitness.

00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:23.039
We practice it's a mental fitness skill.

00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:25.119
All of this is mental fitness.

00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:26.159
That's the hardest.

00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.320
It's much easier to lift a weight.

00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:30.400
Well, because you've been doing it.

00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:31.920
Right, exactly.

00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.599
Thank you so much, Joanna.

00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:34.239
This was great.

00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:40.079
It's a really interesting concept, and I really encourage listeners to get this book, look at it, and try.

00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:41.119
I'm gonna try.

00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:45.679
And maybe we'll play around on social media with how many of us were able to do it because it's pretty tough.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:46.880
So thank you so much.

00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:48.320
Thank you so much.

00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:50.320
Well, that's a wrap.

00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.199
Joanna, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.480
And reminding us that sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is nothing.

00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:05.440
But it's not just about doing nothing, it's about becoming comfortable with our distress and taking it slowly.

00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:09.199
I hope all of us will do the first step that Joanna suggested today.

00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.519
Sit without your phone for a while.

00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:16.880
But it's also a relief to hear that doing less doesn't mean giving up the relationship.

00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:23.920
It means learning to tolerate our discomfort, trust our kids' process, and stay grounded when things get messy.

00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:34.400
For those listening, Joanna's book, Just Do Nothing for Parents, How to Parent Better by Doing Less, is available on Amazon and wherever books are sold.

00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:41.440
You can also learn more about her work at Joannahardis.com and follow her thoughtful writing on psychology today.

00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:50.079
If this conversation resonated with you today, share it with another parent who might need permission to just do nothing today.

00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.760
Thank you so much to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:59.360
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00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.280
It really helps build our brand.

00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.960
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00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.719
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00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:14.079
It's the start of the new year, guys, 2026.

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.320
Time to set your resolution.

00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:22.159
Stop, wait, and remember that sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.