Nov. 14, 2025

Prep for the Holidays: You Can Do it - with Grace, Boundaries -- and Self-Awareness

Prep for the Holidays: You Can Do it - with Grace, Boundaries -- and Self-Awareness

Send us a text The holidays are upon us. It's time to dig deep. Catherine Hickem, founder of Parenting Adult Children Today (PACT). Catherine shares a hopeful, practical roadmap for parents who want less tension and more trust—especially as the holidays bring everyone under one roof. We dig into why adult children often act different around their parents and how expectations, tone, and boundaries can either smother or strengthen the relationship. We discuss: • the hidden cost of...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon

Send us a text

The holidays are upon us.  It's time to dig deep.

Catherine Hickem, founder of Parenting Adult Children Today (PACT). Catherine shares a hopeful, practical roadmap for parents who want less tension and more trust—especially as the holidays bring everyone under one roof.

We dig into why adult children often act different around their parents and how expectations, tone, and boundaries can either smother or strengthen the relationship.   We discuss:

• the hidden cost of parental expectations on adult children
• why rescues undermine confidence and fuel estrangement
• shifting from advice to curiosity with practical scripts
• separating our self-worth from kids’ choices
• tone of voice as an anxiety dial in hard talks
• setting and holding fair house rules when kids move home
• preparing for holidays with boundaries, space and new traditions
• grieving lost visions so joy can return

Please follow us on social media now.  It helps us so much. 

Facebook

 Instagram 

Huge thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.  

Check out Catherine’s free resource: Seven Keys To Talking With Your Adult Children at leaderpass.com/parenting-adult-children-today/preview


Support the show

The site and podcast do not contain any medical/health information or advice. The medical/health information is for general information and educational purposes only and is not suitable for professional device. Accordingly, before taking any actions based upon such information, we encourage you to consult with the appropriate professionals. We do not provide any kind of medical/health advice. THE USE OF OR RELIANCE OF ANY INFORMATION CONTAINED ON THE SITE OR PODCAST IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.


00:00 - Why Young Adults Hide From Parents

00:49 - Show Intro And Holiday Focus

02:37 - Meet Catherine Hickam And PACT

04:34 - Estrangement, Mental Health, And Culture Shifts

07:37 - Hope, Repair, And Owning Our Part

10:56 - Detaching Worth From Kids’ Outcomes

14:30 - Letting Them Struggle And Learn

17:12 - From Control To Curiosity: Language Shifts

19:36 - Boundaries When Adult Kids Move Home

22:00 - Tone Of Voice And Emotional Contagion

25:00 - Self-Reflection And In-Law Dynamics

27:36 - Grief, Letting Go, And New Traditions

31:20 - Holiday Rapid Fire: Practical Tips

39:20 - Two Core Takeaways And Closing

WEBVTT

00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:16.559
As my kids got older and I began to grow with them, I began to realize we don't have resources out here to help parents deal with what I consider actually the most significant time in the life of our children.

00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.399
Yes, development is important.

00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:19.679
I get all of that.

00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:21.920
I'm totally aware, I totally agree.

00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:33.439
But I gotta tell you, you lose a lot of young adults from 18 to 25 because they didn't have the relationships that they could have had with the people who raised them.

00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:44.320
Because the parents bring their expectations, they bring their opinions to that relationship, and it just snuffs the life out of the confidence in those adult children.

00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.240
Hey everyone, welcome to Bite Your Tongue the Podcast.

00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:59.679
Join me, your host, Denise Gorin, as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children.

00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:07.840
Together we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories, and get timely advice, addressing topics that matter most to you.

00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:14.000
Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children.

00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.480
And of course, when to bite our tongues.

00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:18.560
So let's get started.

00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:24.319
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Bite Your Tongue the Podcast.

00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:28.159
I'm Denise, and I'm ready to dive in to another great episode today.

00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:29.439
So glad you're with us.

00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.480
It means so much.

00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:38.560
You know, it's gotten really chilly here in Denver, and that cozy vibe got us thinking this is the perfect time to start talking about holiday prep.

00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:44.640
Not about decorations and gifts, mind you, but about visiting and being visited by our adult children.

00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:48.799
We've got a great guest joining us shortly, and she'll talk all about it.

00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.599
But before we dive in, I have a small favor to ask.

00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:56.400
And don't worry, it's not about donations or money, though we never say no to that support.

00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.920
This time it's about helping us grow our community online.

00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:05.680
Each of our episodes gets thousands of downloads, which is amazing, and we're truly grateful.

00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.960
But we'd like to see that same energy on social media.

00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:12.639
So if you enjoy the show, please take a minute to follow us.

00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:18.800
On Facebook, just search Bite Your Tongue Podcast and on Instagram at BiteYourTonguePod.

00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.039
Look for our big pink logo.

00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.719
Even if you're not a social media fan, trust me, I get it.

00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:32.800
Your following us really helps us reach more parents like you, but also gives our little podcast some big time credibility.

00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:34.719
It would mean the world to us.

00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.199
All right, let's jump into today's episode.

00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.800
We're thrilled to have with us today Catherine Hickam.

00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.479
She's a psychotherapist, author, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today.

00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:48.719
She calls it PACT.

00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:57.919
It's a groundbreaking initiative that helps parents navigate this tricky, beautiful, but sometimes baffling world of parenting grown kids.

00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:06.479
With the holidays coming up, we're going to talk about how to prepare emotionally, mentally, and even spiritually for all that family togetherness.

00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:14.960
We'll also dive into some of Catherine's guiding principles and practical tools to help us improve our relationships with our adult children right now.

00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:21.039
Catherine believes that building a great relationship with your adult child isn't about being perfect.

00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:22.240
Thank goodness.

00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:26.080
It's about showing up with intention, love, and grace.

00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:27.439
So let's dive in.

00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:28.639
Welcome, Catherine.

00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:30.560
We're so glad to have you with us.

00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:37.919
And you know that all of our listeners are parents of adult children, and we've promised some holiday tips, so we'll get to that.

00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:43.840
But I want to know first how you started this pact, a parenting association, what is it?

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:44.879
P-A-C-T.

00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:45.840
Say it for me.

00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:46.240
What is it?

00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.000
Parenting adult children today.

00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:48.560
That's right.

00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:50.080
How did this all begin for you?

00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.840
It started when my own children were in their early 20s.

00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.280
And I was listening.

00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:56.479
I'll tell you a quick story.

00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:00.960
One of my daughter's friends had visited her when she was home during summer.

00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:02.639
He said to me, He said, Mrs.

00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:10.879
Hickham, did you know that your daughter is the only friend that I have that is the same in front of her parents as she is behind their back?

00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:12.319
Oh, interesting.

00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:14.080
And I said, Really?

00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:15.439
And he said, Yes.

00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.639
He said, It's true.

00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:18.000
And I said, Well, what about you?

00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:19.199
Are you the same?

00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:21.759
And he said, Oh, no, absolutely not.

00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:24.480
And I said, Well, Jason, what's that about?

00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:26.160
He said, Oh no, Ms.

00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:27.360
Hickam, I figured out.

00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:31.199
He said, When I go home to be with my mom and dad, I become who they want me to be.

00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.160
Because if I don't, my mom cries, my dad gets mad.

00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:36.319
And he said, So I just change.

00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.000
And he says, and when I walk out the door, I go back to being myself.

00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:42.879
And he said, That's what my friends do.

00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:44.879
It was like I got hit in the gut.

00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:50.240
It really was a very sobering moment when I heard him say that.

00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:52.319
And it made me incredibly sad.

00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:54.319
That is really sad.

00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:55.920
Isn't it just painful?

00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:56.879
Painful.

00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:04.160
And I thought, where do you go when you need to be your full self?

00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:05.120
Where do you go?

00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:13.439
What I began to watch, observe, and listen was that they would go to their friends, but they wouldn't go to their parents.

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:26.639
And I thought, this is a huge opportunity that parents are missing out on because they need to go to someplace where someone loves them, accepts them, and will stick by them.

00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:29.199
Their friends are in the same boat that they're in.

00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:35.519
So they're not going to have the wisdom or the life experience or resources or the insight to know how to support them.

00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:44.240
I mean, I'm glad that they have each other as friends, but but there are some things in life that are too big for your friend just to be their only source of support.

00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:59.120
This is the wisdom that parents could give and the resources they could be if the kids weren't so frightened to disappoint them or deal with their anxiety or their frustrations because they didn't turn out like they thought they should, or they were different than how they thought they should be.

00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:03.439
It really just awakened a whole nother level for me because I'd been a therapist.

00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.519
I'd specialized in parenting.

00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.560
My area was focusing really on 18 and under.

00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:21.759
But as my kids got older and I began to grow with them as they grew, I began to realize we don't have resources out here to help parents deal with what I consider actually the most significant time and the life of our children.

00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:23.680
I mean, yes, development is important.

00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.040
I get all of that.

00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:50.160
And you know, I'm I'm totally aware, I totally agree, but I gotta tell you, you lose a lot of young adults from 18 to 25 because they didn't have the relationships that they could have had with the people who raised them, because the parents bring their expectations, they bring their opinions to that relationship, and it just snuffs the life out of the confidence in those adult children.

00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.480
Let's start with that, because that's a huge statement and a sad statement.

00:06:54.639 --> 00:07:00.879
I think you said to me when we were first talking, how many parents of adult children are out there now, or how many adult children are in the world?

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:09.040
There's a 100 million parents of adult children from the ages of 18 to 45, and that's just in the United States.

00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.439
There's some statistics that are pretty sobering.

00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:19.519
Like 26.1% of adult children have an estranged relationship with at least one, if not both parents.

00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:28.240
Then their mental health is 36.2% of young adults between 18 and 25 have a mental illness.

00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.639
29.4% have a mental illness between 26 and 46.

00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:39.360
Do you think some of that is just that mental illness is more readily recognized now than it was before?

00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:41.439
Or is it go ahead.

00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:43.120
I will tell you, I think it's higher.

00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:44.399
And there's a reason for that.

00:07:44.560 --> 00:08:06.160
And that is over the years, as the illegal drugs, you know, whether it's pod or whatever, the substances that have been laced in those have actually become triggers for mental health disorders that would have laid dormant forever had not that particular substance activated it.

00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:10.720
And once that that illness is activated, it can't be put back in.

00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.959
Once it's out, it is now an issue.

00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:23.120
I do think we have a higher rate of disorders because of the activation of chemicals in the brain that the brain doesn't know how to deal with.

00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:33.200
And I also think we have the highest level of anxiety that probably we have ever seen because we don't have resiliency as a culture like we once had.

00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.159
And so you throw all those things together.

00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:41.679
We've got some pretty significant culture issues that are impacting relationships in the home.

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.000
And vice versa, the issues that are in the home are impacting the culture.

00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:56.799
So we've we've got a problem that we need to be really taking very seriously so that way we can at least have peace within our own homes and our own families.

00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:02.159
But when you have estrangement at 26.1%, I that is that's an alarming statistic to me.

00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.519
This is a sad statement.

00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:06.720
We've started off with many of us might not really know our adult children.

00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.200
They're a different person when they're with us.

00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.360
What can we do, or what do you advise parents to recognize this?

00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:14.960
Do you talk to your kid about it?

00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.279
Or what sorts of things can parents do?

00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:18.559
Here's what I'll tell you.

00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.240
Um, as long as there's breath in our body, there's hope.

00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.759
And I'm a big believer in redemption and restoration.

00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:38.000
I am the byproduct of a father, of a very difficult relationship with a father that at 25, I had a really heart-to-heart conversation with him about some really hard things.

00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:42.879
And he took ownership and he said, if I could do it over, I would do it over.

00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:44.240
He said, But I can't.

00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:51.120
The only thing I can do is I can give you my word that moving forward, I could be the dad that you need, not the dad that you had.

00:09:51.360 --> 00:10:00.159
And for the rest of my adult life, my dad worked very intentionally to be an amazing father that I didn't have from five to 25.

00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:04.480
Incredibly grateful, but he modeled for me redemption.

00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:10.960
He modeled for me that as long as I could see he was willing to work and change and grow, I jumped right in.

00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:21.440
And I am, I feel very fortunate that I had the experience of ending my relationship with my dad in a much, much better way than how I had how it started.

00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:32.559
I have watched as a therapist, right, as a parenting specialist over the years, I have just seen redemption, restoration, forgiveness, learning, growing, um change.

00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:35.039
And so I'm, I know it can happen.

00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:44.240
I realize that in some families there's a lot of water that's gone under the bridge, but in most circumstances, um, I will tell you that I think that it's possible.

00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:46.720
It's a question: are we willing to do the work?

00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:48.240
Are we willing to listen?

00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:58.399
Are we willing to grow and be curious instead of holding on to our expectations and our beliefs and all those things that we've been willing to die on the hill for?

00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:06.320
Can I step back and be a student of my children and really learn who they are versus who I thought they were?

00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:08.159
Yes, it makes perfect sense.

00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:15.039
I love that because one of the things we've stressed almost in every episode, and you kind of referred to this.

00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:16.960
We have to look at ourselves.

00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:22.960
I think many times parents see the issue as their kids and they don't play a role.

00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.240
Does that make any sense?

00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:32.240
Because we grew up in a society where it was honor they father and mother, and we did whatever it took to make sure our parents were happy.

00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:38.240
Whereas I think this generation takes care of themselves too, which is valuable and good for them.

00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.000
But we don't get that completely.

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.240
Well, it's it's also a message that we kind of send them from the very beginning.

00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:45.039
You're right.

00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:55.360
So, therefore, we're responsible for the messaging that we infused in them that we're now having to live with and deal with.

00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:56.639
You are so right.

00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:57.519
That's exactly right.

00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:59.759
We really have to look at the mirror on this one.

00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:02.000
I don't want anyone to hear this wrong.

00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:11.759
We'll never quote overvalue our children per se, but sometimes we have done some things out of balance, which is never healthy.

00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:13.840
Anytime we're out of balance, it's never healthy.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:24.799
I remember when I was doing parenting years ago with the under 18 crowd, I would say to mom and dad, I would say, every 10th pizza, you get the last piece of pizza.

00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:30.960
I had an episode called The Burnt Hamburger, and it was out the mother always taking the burnt hamburger.

00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:31.840
There you go.

00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:34.159
That's the exact lesson, right?

00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:34.639
Yeah.

00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:38.000
Why did I say I want the parent to take the last?

00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.879
So they would see that sometimes I matter.

00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:44.559
I'm the most important one in that moment or that day or that event.

00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.639
They're not always the number one.

00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.480
They can sometimes be number two, number three, number four, because that's what life is.

00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:52.639
We're not always number one.

00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.759
We have to learn how to shift, to have to adapt.

00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:00.240
It's not always about us, it's sometimes it's about other people, and that's okay.

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:05.039
That's what we call balance, that's what we call teaching kids and adult, young adults.

00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:07.519
How do you think of somebody beside yourself?

00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.799
How do we create an understanding of empathy?

00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:12.960
How do we not raise narcissists?

00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.639
Those are some incredibly important questions we need to be thinking about.

00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.000
And so it's important that we give ourselves value.

00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:31.360
And this is one of the things that I think as parents, we need to be looking at ourselves because too often our value is attached to how our adult children turn out.

00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:46.480
And our value has to be completely separate and independent because one, it's not, it's too much pressure on them that if my happiness is dependent upon them, that's too weighty to put on the shoulders of a young adult.

00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.879
Secondly, I'm responsible for my happiness.

00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:50.799
They're not responsible for that.

00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.080
And I don't want to be responsible for their happiness either.

00:13:54.320 --> 00:14:12.799
So, you know, there's a lot of shifts, a lot of changes that we have to recognize our natural evolution of us going from parenting when we were responsible for them while they were at home to when they became a young adult and an adult, that we have to really shift the way we think.

00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:20.480
So our self-worth isn't tied to their choices, their decisions, their outcomes.

00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:22.799
That's not fair to anybody.

00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.000
Everybody loses when we are imbalanced.

00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.720
And we've not done a really good job of that.

00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:33.759
And how do you tell that to a parent who's given their whole life to raising kids?

00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.320
And I see it now in this next generation too.

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.320
It's funny because I was just visiting my daughter.

00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:48.000
I have a new grand, my first grandchild, five months old, and I looked at her and I said, you know, there's nothing wrong with benign neglect because you overdo it as a parent of a baby.

00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:54.559
And I see it coming in with the whole next generation following our footsteps, but even amplified.

00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:55.759
So, so much.

00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:06.639
This is one of the reasons why I jumped into this particular area was because we have over-emphasized and we don't let children learn how to self-soothe.

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.320
We don't let them struggle.

00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.279
It's like struggle is what makes them strong.

00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.480
We put a kid on a playmat and we hand them the toy every time they go to reach it.

00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:21.440
They're not going to develop the muscle tone that they need to be able to then crawl and then walk.

00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:26.000
But we're also taking opportunities away for them to develop confidence.

00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.080
And to me, that is that's part of the damage that we've done.

00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:37.600
We've not given them opportunities to develop self-worth, self-confidence that they can overcome, they can persevere, they can push through.

00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:44.000
I mean, what an incredible feeling to know that I've done something hard and I've gotten to the other side.

00:15:50.639 --> 00:16:01.120
And this is what, you know, as young adults that we have in our homes and adults, we have to respect them, but they have to work through the process.

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:06.080
They will learn, they will grow just like we did when we were making decisions and we were making mistakes.

00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:13.200
But we have to, we're too quick to rescue, we're too quick to give our opinion, we're too quick to tell them what to do.

00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:15.919
Not helpful, not encouraging.

00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.960
So hard.

00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:24.480
I want to go back to the expectations that you were talking about, not tying up our happiness with their happiness and all of that.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:32.879
Give any advice for parents that have given their whole life to raising their children, had expectations that they were going to be best buds when they became adult kids.

00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:43.200
The kid feels this tension that all their expectations, you know, their parent thinks they're not a doctor, they're not a lawyer, they're not a CEO, they're not a tech genius or whatever.

00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.120
How do parents deal with those feelings?

00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.399
Those feelings are a reflection of how the parents are insecure.

00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:49.840
Oh, yeah, you're right.

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:50.320
You're right.

00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:57.600
Basically saying, I wasn't enough because if I was enough, they would be making different choices and they would be this.

00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.840
Not not true.

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:18.240
And when we have a hole that we haven't filled in a healthy way or addressed our own not enoughness, we project it onto them, and now they're carrying our not enoughness, and we've sent a message that they're not not enough, and now they don't want to be around people that remind them they're not enough.

00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.000
So estrangement happens, disconnect happens.

00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.759
If I every time I see them, I'm a disappointment or I think I've disappointed you in some way.

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.680
Why do I want to hang around?

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:31.279
I wouldn't, that's for sure.

00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:33.200
It's not fun, painful.

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.480
And sometimes even the parent can't fake it.

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.279
No.

00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:42.000
Oh, parents, our children know us better than we know ourselves.

00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:43.039
That's the problem.

00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.839
Because they've lived with a life, they've lived a lifetime with us.

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:53.839
They know when we're faking it, they know when we're not being genuine, and they've heard the comments that we've made about other people, about other people's kids.

00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:54.240
Yeah.

00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:55.839
Therefore, guess what?

00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.119
They don't forget.

00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:02.880
This is the reason I can't tell my mom this, is because I heard what she said about, you know, my cousin so-and-so.

00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.319
So they don't tell you.

00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:07.759
So they just keep it inside and they live a secret life.

00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:15.920
Parents would be shocked, shocked if they really knew the struggles our kids had that they don't feel the safety to be able to talk about.

00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.000
I want us to change that because you know what?

00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.799
We love our kids, we want the best for our kids.

00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.720
We don't want them to struggle that way.

00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.519
We just don't know that we're we're messing them up.

00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:28.319
We don't know that we're we're presenting that way.

00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.799
So you have some guiding principles I want to go over so we can at least give some.

00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.519
This is also interesting, but I want our listeners to have something they can take away to work on.

00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.880
We talked about expectations, but one of the things you also talked about treating them like children.

00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.079
You have to remember our job in the first 18 years of life was to be a teacher, right?

00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:54.480
We were to teach them about all kinds of things in terms of preparing them for life, being willing to release them.

00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:03.279
But we get to that point of releasing them, and then what we do is we hold on, we push back when they try to become independent because we're scared.

00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:08.799
And that fear is contagious and it falls over onto them.

00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:14.400
And so what we want to do is get really honest about what's my biggest fear.

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.839
And if we can sit with that, the honesty of that fear, then we can make a decision.

00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:26.000
Is that the what I want to hand them as they leave, or do I want to hand them my belief that they can do this?

00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:34.880
Even though I may not fully understand what all that will mean, am I gonna give them the gift of my confidence and my belief in who they are?

00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:42.000
Or am I going to be so scared that I'm gonna come off controlling and trying to manage their lives?

00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:47.359
Because if I try to quote, parent them the way I did when they were little, I will lose them.

00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:54.400
Can you give me an example of how a parent might say something that sounds that is controlling, treating them like a child as an adult?

00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:54.960
Yeah.

00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:09.119
So for instance, let's say that their ki their child has gone off to college and they're several weeks into their first semester of college, and they have an opportunity to go away for the weekend at someone's home.

00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:14.640
Now, they've also told you that their first set of tests are coming up for the new semester.

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.400
And so the parent would say, Are you really sure that's a good idea?

00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:23.200
I'm really concerned because you've got all those tests coming back and you're gonna go party over the weekend.

00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:28.079
Don't you think you should be staying back to study to get ready for your first exams?

00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:29.519
I've said it a million times.

00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.920
My kids are older now, but I know I've done that.

00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:32.400
Yeah.

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.599
See what I'm saying?

00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.079
Good intentions, probably the smart thing to do is not do that weekend.

00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:38.960
But you know what?

00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:40.559
That's not our decision to make.

00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:49.039
They may need to learn that in the very first month of the very first semester that they may not have their act together as quickly as they think they do.

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.279
So if they fall on this one, guess what?

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.039
They'll be smarter the next time.

00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:58.400
But if they don't have the space to learn the lessons, guess what's gonna happen?

00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.079
I keep repeating the mistakes because they're gonna do it to spite us.

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.960
Say, I'm my own person, I want to do this.

00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:12.160
And the truth is, we don't want to be the reaction, we want to not have them manage us.

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.319
We can ask questions and just say, I'm sure that's gonna be a fun weekend.

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.960
How do you feel about the test that you're coming back to?

00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.000
So say it that way, let them be curious or whatever.

00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:22.319
Yeah.

00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:32.160
That gift of curiosity, that because what you're assuming the best, and if they haven't thought of it, you've planted a seed, but you've not said, Well, I think that's a really stupid idea.

00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.880
And I hear parents say, that was really dumb.

00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:36.160
Why would you do that?

00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.519
How helpful is that?

00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.039
Not very helpful to anybody.

00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.880
It's disrespectful.

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:49.279
We need to talk to them the way we would want someone to speak to us if we were contemplating a decision that maybe we had not fully given thought to.

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:57.839
So it's a question of do I treat them respectfully or do I talk down to them as if they have no sense?

00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:05.839
If I really think my kid has no sense, then I need to go look in the mirror and go, where was I in the parenting world that I didn't do my job?

00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.119
Do you know what I'm saying?

00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:08.880
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:14.559
It's like we gotta be really we gotta be really careful because that mirror can pop up really fast.

00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:16.720
You mentioned boundaries.

00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:26.640
I want to hear your thoughts on boundaries because you mentioned the importance of setting boundaries once your kids become adults, and parents should do that without guilt.

00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.839
I have never heard about parents setting boundaries.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.799
I've always heard about the adult kids setting boundaries.

00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.480
I think parents can set boundaries.

00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.039
Okay.

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:45.680
But I and I think we have to make some decisions, especially since we have such a wave of adult children coming back home due to the economy, due to the horse, due to all kinds of reasons, right?

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.359
Just the cost of living.

00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:53.839
But before they come back home, parents need to get really clear about what their non-negotiables are.

00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.440
In my home, packing up was not an option in my home.

00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.160
If they wanted to do that, if that was a choice that they had chosen to make, that would be fine.

00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.240
They could make that choice on their own by themselves.

00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.119
But they weren't doing it in underneath my roof.

00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:09.119
Not something that I wanted happening.

00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.480
I didn't want people coming and going in the middle of the night that I didn't know.

00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:17.359
I needed to know when I went to bed that I was familiar with the people that were in that house.

00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:27.920
How you say something like that, you can be very judgmental and very condescending and unkind, or you can just say, hey guys, I just need you to understand this is where dad and I are.

00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.920
And I know it may not make sense to you, but this is what works for us.

00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.920
I need you to really recognize this is an important boundary for us.

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.599
And I need you to honor that.

00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:39.039
And then they get to make a choice.

00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.000
And if they want to live in my house, they get to that's fine.

00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.920
But they have to, they have to agree to that.

00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:48.079
If they are coming back, I'm not gonna be responsible for cooking their meals.

00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:48.960
Guess what?

00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:54.799
And I'm gonna expect that they, if they clean mess the dishes up, they're gonna need to clean the dishes up.

00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.640
So it's a question of the how do I say it in a manner that says, we're a team, we're all gonna be living together.

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.319
Let's talk about what do you need?

00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:03.440
Here's what we need.

00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.759
How do we create the best win-win possible?

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:13.359
But have the conversation before we quote, pick up where we left off when they left for college years ago.

00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:15.440
They come back different people.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.000
We need to treat them differently because they come back different people.

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:21.359
But we don't do that.

00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:23.680
We just kind of think we just pick up where we left off.

00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:25.519
No, that's not what happens.

00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.960
What happens when you have the adult child that doesn't respect your boundaries?

00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:37.519
So you've said this very nicely, they've agreed, and all of a sudden you wake up and there's a girl leaving the house or whatever, or they're on the couch and not helping with anything.

00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:39.440
I mean, I've I get lots of letters like this.

00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:41.519
How do the parents handle something like that?

00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.079
I think again, if they come back, you have to say, let me tell you what our expectations are.

00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:51.759
There will need to be a job, there will need to be involvement in a full-time educational program.

00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.079
I mean, lay out here's our expectations.

00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:01.839
If there's some kind of a mental illness or treatment program, then you say we expect you to be involved in this or this or this.

00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:06.160
Because living here doing nothing is not an option.

00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.400
We're all contributing, we're all working.

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:16.960
We expect you to either be employed, be in school, contributing in some way, but just living here freeloading isn't an option.

00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.759
You're an adult, we're gonna treat you like an adult, but adults have adult responsibilities.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.839
Therefore, we need you to come back and tell us how are you gonna contribute to the world, how are you gonna contribute to our home.

00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.079
We'll give you a couple days to figure that out.

00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:32.319
But this is really important to us.

00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:33.839
It's an act of love.

00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.359
And sometimes you have to give kids space because they've been through things.

00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.680
I'm not talking about being severe.

00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:41.039
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:50.799
But I've talked to too many parents where we're three years in and the adult child hasn't worked, hasn't gone to school, hasn't stayed consistent in their treatment program.

00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:52.079
I mean, nothing.

00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:53.920
They're like, what do we do?

00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:58.240
You're gonna hold boundaries and you're gonna let them have to problem solve.

00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:06.400
You're gonna put it in writing, you're gonna look give them very specific an outline of expectations, and they get to choose, they get to make the choice.

00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.400
You're simply gonna carry out the their choice, whatever that is.

00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.440
And that way it's they're making choices and decisions.

00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:14.720
You're not doing this to them.

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.839
They've made the choices, you're simply executing the the outcome of their choice.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.079
But we have to be willing to let them suffer.

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:28.240
We have to be willing to let them have some hard times, and that's where most parents just collapse.

00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:31.839
They are not willing to let their kid have to figure it out.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.079
And what they don't understand is every time they rescue them, they're insulting them.

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:36.880
Not helpful.

00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:37.359
Yep.

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:43.200
Everything you're saying is really hard for parents who have been overly involved with their kids growing up.

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:48.960
I love what you said about your expectations are a reflection of your own insecurities.

00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.480
I think that's so true.

00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:51.359
All right.

00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.920
I'm moving to one of your other core relationship values, which is tone of voice.

00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.079
I'd love to hear what you have to say about tone of voice.

00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.039
Look at you! That look on your face says it all.

00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.440
I just can't even tell you.

00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:13.519
When we open our mouths, what comes out of our mouth decides if our child hears us as if they were five or 10 or 15, right?

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:18.799
It triggers memories from the times past and how we use their name.

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:27.119
Our inflection, like just triggers all kinds of flood of memories, whether it was a good conversation or conflicting conversation or whatever.

00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:29.039
It just all comes back in.

00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:35.920
So we have to really pay attention to our behavior, our eyes, you know, because we eye roll like they eye rolled.

00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:41.839
Well, all the things that we were frustrated with them, they're gonna be frustrated with us, or it's gonna send a message.

00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:47.920
We really have to be very self-aware, especially if the conversation's hard.

00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.559
I need to be very metered because, like I said, anxiety is contagious.

00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:58.160
And the minute my voice raises, their anxiety is gonna be far higher.

00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:04.160
And I don't want them managing me, I want them hearing my heart.

00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.759
What do you mean by managing you?

00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:15.119
Let's say I react and I get upset and I'm mad and I'm frustrated and I'm loud, the issue at that point becomes secondary to the fact of them getting me calmed down.

00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:15.839
Got it.

00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:16.160
Okay.

00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.599
I'm not gonna pay attention to the issue until they get me calmed down.

00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.920
And then because I've reacted so severely, they know exactly what I want from them.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:29.680
And what happens if what I want from them, they can't provide me or it's not of value to them.

00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.680
Do you have clients practice tone of voice?

00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:34.799
Oh, yeah.

00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:40.400
I recently had a a mom's her her daughter's like in her mid-30s.

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.119
Because she said, I'm a very expressive person.

00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:45.680
See, that's how I am, and I work so hard on it.

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:47.680
Yeah, I have a daughter that's not.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.279
And she said, and the more I'm expressive, the more she shuts down.

00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:57.680
But she says, What I've observed is the more steady I am, the more expressive she becomes.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.759
Look at it as there's a hundred ounces in any exchange of communication.

00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:09.440
And if I'm 80% of the emotion, that other person's gonna probably take on the other 20% and shut down.

00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:28.640
So if I really want to know something, I at least have to create the environment that says, you're safe to give me your thoughts, your ideas, whatever's going on in your head, and I'm not gonna overwhelm you with my emotion because they've managed us, like I said, uh, their whole lives, they've managed us.

00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:36.319
You're so right actually dictated how they learned to deal with dysfunction, to be honest with you.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.000
I can tell you from my own experience, my dad had a temper.

00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:50.640
Um, my goal was to be flatlined and invisible, so I didn't activate the temper because the last thing I wanted to have in my world was to be seen by him.

00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.279
I really didn't want to be seen because it was gonna be good.

00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.279
So I worked very hard to be very invisible.

00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:04.559
Now I learned a lot, don't get me wrong, I learned to be A lot because I was a great listener, observed, became a great awareness of other people.

00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:05.440
I paid a price.

00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.079
I'm so happy you two came together later in life.

00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.200
That's so wonderful.

00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.119
Yeah, such a gift, such a gift.

00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:11.599
Okay.

00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:13.279
Self-reflection.

00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:17.039
Probably one of the most important skill sets that a parent can have.

00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:17.599
Okay.

00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.440
If we don't have it, we're going to keep running into a buzzsaw.

00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.480
It gets more complicated when you bring in the in-laws.

00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:49.680
When the a child marries somebody and we don't have self-awareness, we will say things we shouldn't say, do things we shouldn't do, and we can create more problems for those future relationships because we lack the sensitivity, we lack the ability to have self-control, to ask the questions versus make assumptions, have judgments, project expectations.

00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.759
You want to kill a relationship with a future in-law.

00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:59.119
Just keep talking about what you think they should do or should be or how something should go.

00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:03.200
And you're you're just paving that path for a propeller blade.

00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:04.799
Not good, not healthy.

00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:06.079
All of this is so hard.

00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.160
I think of myself, most of my life I was in the business world, and that was my job.

00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:10.559
Right.

00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.960
Solve the problems, tell people what they need to do, blah, blah, blah.

00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.400
And all of a sudden, you can't do anything you were good at.

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:19.359
Right, right.

00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:20.160
Right.

00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:20.960
It's hard.

00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.839
Yeah, it's very, very, and that's all about self-reflection.

00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:25.359
Well, that's exactly right.

00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.480
Here's the other thing is that we love these kids, right?

00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:28.880
Yes.

00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.599
This is our heart walking outside our body.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.880
Now we're being told don't say anything.

00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.960
And it just about kills us.

00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.880
When you say don't treat them like children, we have to keep putting on our heads, they're adults now.

00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:47.440
If we insult when we assume they don't think.

00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:48.400
Right.

00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:54.720
And we have to have that in our head all the time because we have to have confidence that they're going to make the right decisions.

00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.799
And if they don't, they'll figure it out.

00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.559
But boy, sounds so easy when we talk about it here, Catherine.

00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:01.839
I have two children.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.680
I have a son and I have a daughter.

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.279
My son always said to me, I have to learn everything the hard way, mom.

00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:12.240
I had a daughter who said, Oh, no, no, I'm going to watch him and learn one video.

00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:13.920
Right, right, right.

00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:14.960
Very interesting.

00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.240
So the son who always said, I have to learn it the hard way, I had to let him learn it the hard way.

00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.400
There were some pretty painful lessons.

00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:24.319
And you were a psychotherapist.

00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:30.319
So you also had to say, uh-oh, I'm counseling other people and watching my kids spiral.

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:30.559
Yeah.

00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:31.440
Yeah, absolutely.

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.079
And you're like, this is really hard.

00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.119
But I know I know him and I know he's right.

00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.519
He has to learn it the way he learns.

00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:43.680
I'm just going to have to quote stay, step over, stay out of the way.

00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.799
And when he falls, I'll be there and say, I'm here.

00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:47.839
How can I support you?

00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:48.720
What did you learn?

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.559
What needs to happen next?

00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.880
Okay, we're going to do one more thing, and then I'm going to do a quick, rapid-fire holiday round.

00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:55.200
Okay.

00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.200
Because I could talk to you for hours.

00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.880
I want to talk about grief.

00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:04.480
You mentioned grief, and I think the grief must involve letting go of your expectations.

00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:04.799
Yeah.

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.759
I guess judgment, does judgment come into play with grief?

00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:11.039
Or tell us about grief because you have all you write a lot about it.

00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:11.680
Okay.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:13.279
How about I give you a story?

00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:13.680
Okay.

00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:14.319
I love your story.

00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:16.160
I love your stories.

00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:16.559
Okay.

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:18.640
My son's best friend got married.

00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.079
We were at the wedding.

00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.759
During that time, it comes time for the mother-son dance.

00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:27.839
They picked the song that I would pick if my son was getting married, right?

00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.440
I'm sitting at the reception, they're dancing, and I start to cry.

00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:33.680
I'm asking myself, what are these tears about?

00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:38.400
There is this awareness in the moment that I will probably never have a mother-son dance.

00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:44.480
The reason I had that awareness was because my son had never dated a woman from the United States.

00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.680
He was always dating other cultured women.

00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:50.720
They don't practice the same wedding practices.

00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:55.279
I had attended probably three to four hundred weddings because my dad was a minister.

00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.079
I had been married to a minister for 35 years.

00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:03.039
So I had a whole memory bank of all kinds of weddings.

00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.599
And I would imagine my kids getting married.

00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:09.679
In that moment, I realized that will probably never be me.

00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:13.360
And I had to grieve the fact I would not have that moment.

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:14.639
I grieve it.

00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:15.519
My daughter's there.

00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.320
She takes my hand.

00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:17.440
She knows why I'm grieving.

00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:18.400
My son is clueless.

00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:22.480
He has no idea why I'm fast forward four years.

00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:23.840
I get a call from my son.

00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:26.159
He said, Hey, mom, I'm getting married in 60 days.

00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.840
Would you come to the wedding?

00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.000
He's on the other side of the world.

00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.239
He's living in Singapore.

00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:34.880
And I said, Of course I'll be there.

00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:36.000
I get my ticket.

00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.119
I head there.

00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:41.519
Their traditions looked nothing like anything I'd ever experienced before.

00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:42.880
I read up on them.

00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.400
I got as knowledgeable as I could.

00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:47.280
And I went to this wedding and I had an amazing time.

00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:48.960
I got to meet all of her family.

00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:51.280
I got to enjoy every single moment.

00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:58.639
I would not have been able to do that had I not grieved something that I thought was going to be mine.

00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:05.920
I could fully embrace and be totally present for his moment the way he wanted to do it.

00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:10.239
Because I didn't bring any baggage of expectation of what I thought it should be.

00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:19.039
And I think when we give ourselves permission to grieve the moments, whether they're small or they're big, we can get really clean, really honest.

00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:26.239
We can let it go, and then we'll be ready to receive and be what they need us to be versus what we want it to be.

00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.280
And that's a big difference.

00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.159
And I just think that grief is just a gift.

00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.480
Some things are harder to let go of than others.

00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:33.440
I'm not gonna lie.

00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.719
I've had to grieve some things that I didn't think I would have to grieve.

00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:43.199
But I will tell you, I'm grateful that I learned it because I want to be pure hearted when I'm with them.

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:50.159
I really don't want to bring my unfinished business that's not theirs to carry into that relationship.

00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.840
I don't blame us as parents.

00:35:51.920 --> 00:36:00.320
I mean, the minute we find out we're having a child, we immediately begin to have dreams and visions and expectations of what if this or what if that.

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.320
And my son's adopted, actually.

00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.599
And his mother gave me a letter before he was born.

00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.320
In the letter, she gave me her dreams for him.

00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.199
Her dreams started and she never got to hold him.

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:26.880
It's just such an innate part of who we are that we need to honor that and not beat ourselves up for having dreams or or being disappointed when things don't go the way we thought, but we can't weigh them down with stuff that was not theirs to ever carry to begin with.

00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:31.119
And grief really helps us release that and move forward.

00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.639
That's the gift that I think we can give if we're if we'll stay aware.

00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.920
That's why self-awareness is important, staying connected to our emotions.

00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:38.239
Yeah.

00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.039
So we can bring the best version of us to them with them.

00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.599
I want to mention to everyone, because I've enjoyed this conversation so much.

00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:50.800
Catherine has a great free resource you need to check out.

00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.320
It's seven keys to talking with your adult children.

00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:56.159
And I will put a link to it.

00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:02.079
I know it's leaderpass.com, parenting adult children today, forward slash preview.

00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.000
I'll put a link in the episode notes.

00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:05.840
I found it wonderful.

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.679
She talks to you in many videos.

00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:09.840
She gives you lots of tools to work with.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.119
So it's conversations much like this with Catherine.

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:14.639
Well, you don't get to talk to her.

00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.039
She talks to you, but it's great.

00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.559
Okay, Catherine, let's have some fun with this rapid fire holiday round.

00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:21.039
Okay.

00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:22.000
Are you ready?

00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:22.800
I'm ready.

00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:23.440
Let's let's go.

00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:24.159
Okay, let's go.

00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:28.400
Catherine, the number one mistake parents make when they're prepping for the holidays.

00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:32.800
Their expectations that all the traditions will continue.

00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.559
How do you cope if no one's coming home this year?

00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:45.679
You get a life, create your own journey of joy, and you figure out where do you get to celebrate and do it because you matter and you're important.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.360
Tips for welcoming a new partner or significant other to your home at the holidays.

00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:55.280
Call ahead of time, welcome them, let them know you're excited about them coming.

00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:03.119
Ask them if they have something that they would like for breakfast or a special scent that brings back really sweet memories from their past.

00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:08.639
Just being thoughtful and letting them know you are looking forward to this experience.

00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:09.519
That's great.

00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:13.679
What do you do when your kids slip into the childhood mode when they visit?

00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:14.880
Because that happens a lot.

00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.239
Suddenly the rooms are messy, they're leaving their dishes everywhere.

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:21.280
They become that teenager again when they come back home.

00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:29.519
I think you can sit down and have a conversation if it's not just like a one-time thing, but you're just noticing a pattern and just say, hey, look, I'm getting a mixed message from you.

00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:37.760
On one hand, you want me to be sure that I'm treating you like an adult, but that there are other times when I see that you kind of slip back.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.239
So we need to quote get on the same page because I don't want there to be conflict.

00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:49.119
So I just needed to put this on the radar screen so that way you we can continue on the adult-adult relationship.

00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:51.599
And it's all about that tone of voice, right?

00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:52.960
It's all about that tone of voice.

00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.320
It's all about that tone of voice.

00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:55.119
Absolutely.

00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:02.000
Best advice for parents when they are visiting their adult children in another city or a place for the holidays.

00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:09.199
Call ahead and say what would be the best way for us to quote take the load off of our visit with you.

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:11.039
Do we need to bring groceries?

00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:14.159
Would it be helpful if we took the children out for a day?

00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.320
How can we best support you?

00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.239
So you're not feeling like, oh my goodness, I got to now take care of everybody.

00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:21.920
Yeah, that is the pressure.

00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:23.760
Okay, the whole crew's together.

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.039
You've got 12 people in your house sleeping everywhere.

00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.480
Tensions rise.

00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:30.320
What's your top strategy?

00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.880
Create opportunities for everybody to get out of the house and go do their own thing.

00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.280
So we're not all together 24-7.

00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:39.119
Everybody needs some space.

00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:49.679
Everybody needs some time as of their own little group, or the gals can go do this, the guys can go do this, or the grandparents can take the grandkids, or whatever mix it is.

00:39:49.920 --> 00:40:00.400
But everybody needs space to quote breathe and to not feel the pressure of all the intensity that comes with all the relationships being exposed to each other at the same time.

00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.000
And speaking of relationships, what do you do when you have two siblings?

00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.679
Let's say you've got three or four, but two of them just do not get along.

00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:14.320
They seem to tolerate each other for the first day together, but by the second day, it's really uncomfortable for everyone.

00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:30.880
Well, and I think if you know that's going to happen, you may even want to have a conversation ahead of time and say, look, I know that you and your brother are at odds right now, but I want to you to put this in your head that what do you need to do in order to come and be the very best version of you with him?

00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.519
Is there anything the two of you need to be talking about before you come here?

00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:38.639
And if it can't be, I just want you to know I love you.

00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:39.679
I want you here.

00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:41.280
Let me know how I can support you.

00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:48.000
I'm not gonna take sides, but just let me know if you need some space and you need to walk away, that's fine.

00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:50.239
Do what you need to do to take care of you.

00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.760
But I am aware that y'all are not doing well.

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:57.360
Uh and let me know how I can support you, but I'm not gonna be the referee.

00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:57.840
Right.

00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.559
That's perfect.

00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:00.239
Catherine, this has been terrific.

00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:08.159
We've been doing this for four years, and I've had lots of guests, and I'm always thinking, well, maybe I'm gonna stop the podcast because there's not many fresh ideas.

00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.639
This was so fresh and so wonderful.

00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:12.159
So I can't thank you enough.

00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:20.960
But before we leave, I always ask my guests for two takeaways that you want our listeners to remember after they've pressed stop on the podcast.

00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.079
What would you say?

00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.599
The very first thing is for us to remember it is never too late to be a great parent.

00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:34.639
As long as there's breath in our body, we can work and grow and evolve and change to be the healthiest version of ourselves.

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:42.880
We can't control what our adult children choose to do with that, but at least we know we have given it everything that we could, and that's all we can ask for.

00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:50.239
Then I think the second thing is really get self-aware on what expectations you bring into that relationship with your adult children.

00:41:50.559 --> 00:42:02.800
We often have great intentions, our hearts are right and we want the best, but sometimes we can really weigh them down and they think they could never make us happy or will never meet our expectations.

00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:06.000
That's not the way we want our children to remember our relationship.

00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.880
So get honest, get clean, get rid of them.

00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.199
And if you need to, apologize.

00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.119
Let them know hey, I've put this on you.

00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.880
This is about me, this isn't about you.

00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:16.079
I love you, period.

00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:18.159
There's no if, and, or but, period.

00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:20.960
I think there's something very freeing when we do that.

00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.039
Great takeaways, really terrific.

00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:25.440
Catherine, this has been so helpful and so real.

00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:26.639
I loved your stories.

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.320
Thank you for sharing your insight, your humor, and of course your heart.

00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:31.440
We really appreciate it.

00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:36.159
And I'll make sure to mention your website and a lot more about you in our episode notes.

00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:37.440
So thanks for joining.

00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.440
Well, thank you so much for having me in.

00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.880
I wish everybody a really wonderful holiday.

00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:46.239
Well, that's a wrap.

00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.280
I think we really have a lot to think about.

00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.920
At least she gave me a lot to think about.

00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:59.199
That beginning when she talked about adult children really not being themselves when they're around their parents, was very enlightening to me.

00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.800
And so many things about our expectations pulling them down.

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.840
I really think she's right on so many levels.

00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:11.280
I hope you'll check out her website, parenting adultchildrentoday.com.

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:16.880
And that's where you'll be able to get a free pre-review of the seven keys to talking with your adult children.

00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.000
And I'll also link them in our episode notes.

00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:25.519
I also wish all of you a pleasant, relaxing, wonderful holiday period.

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:34.800
Remember, your role may have changed, but your relationship can keep growing with love, curiosity, and maybe a little less unsolicited advice.

00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:40.000
And that goes with saying hey, sometimes you may have to bite your tongue.